Official Luthiers Forum!

To Rod, Mike, Colin, Hesh, and others,

Thanks guys, i'll always stay who i am, here is not only my home but you are dear friends even though we've never met face to face, i have here what is hard to have for me in day life ie true friends. Where else would i go when i have the best of people encouraging me and other big kids like me to keep on going and realizing our dream of building musical instruments? Like Ron Wisdom, and Mike Tobey and Al Peebels and many others i often think about my brothers here and wonder what they're up to in their shops. Many of the sentences that are written here follow me at work so i don't go crazy WHEN passing a stewpid mop or a vacuum in the hallways REPEATEDLY, DAY AFTER DAY, AFTER DAY..........you all help me be a better person and i mean not only for helping me with my woodworking skills which have improved dramatically ever since i signed up here but also by the level of humanity that you folks have, my friends, you are a blessing and have been since december 25th 2005!

I am heart broken I shall retire to the mountain top to consider my avatarical position, but I must say, this is a real poke in the eye. larkim38874.3526851852

Well, not to stir up trouble, BUT...

I can see the point about the moving avatars, but being a person who has had to deal with ADHD as a kid, and ADD as an adult (I slowed down), they don't really bother me, unless they are shocking or offensive, such as the mugging one and the stripper.
I really liked The Cowbell, especially with Bob's face on it. Losing things like that can create a feeling of stuffiness. Right now, we're casual. Moves like this can make us a shirt-and-tie type of fourm.
I don't think moving avatars in themselves detract from the quality of this website, it's which ones we choose that do that. I would hate to lose part of what gives this forum a sense of community.

Which brings me to another point.
I view off-topic discussions as a necessary part of this community. Seperating them can and will detract from that community feeling on the OLF.
I believe this forum started out intentionally to achieve that strong sense of community in it, and it succeeded. But taking the off-topic things out and relegating them to a seperate section, which doesn't always show up on the main page nor the Active Topics page, will detract from that sense of community in the long run. There is such a thing as taking yourself too seriously.
When I use the Active Topics button, (which is the only way I view this forum) I usually select a relatively short time-frame to go back and view things. So if their are no Off-Topic posts in the last 8 or 12 hours, I wouldn't see them at all. Entirely off my radar. It's easy to miss things you can't see readily.
Now, if you had a way to always show the subdivisions of the OLF on the Active Topics page regardless of activity, as is done on other forums, then we could see the latest activity in each section at a glance.
Just a thought.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

[QUOTE=1bordeaux] Can we get spelcheck ? [/QUOTE]

If you install the Google search tool bar it comes with a web form spell check...greatest thing since crispy pan fried rainbow trout on a flaming campfire at 6AM. This thing checks everything I've thrown at it including forum posts. (Yes, it did pick up spelcheck )

[QUOTE=Larry Davis] [QUOTE=1bordeaux] Can we get spelcheck ? [/QUOTE]

If you install the Google search tool bar it comes with a web form spell check...greatest thing since crispy pan fried rainbow trout on a flaming campfire at 6AM. This thing checks everything I've thrown at it including forum posts. (Yes, it did pick up spelcheck )[/QUOTE]

I've already had breakfast, but MAN! That sounds mouth watering.

Done now....

[QUOTE=Don Williams] Well, not to stir up trouble, BUT...

I can see the point about the moving avatars, but being a person who has had to deal with ADHD as a kid, and ADD as an adult (I slowed down), they don't really bother me, unless they are shocking or offensive, such as the mugging one and the stripper.
I really liked The Cowbell, especially with Bob's face on it. Losing things like that can create a feeling of stuffiness. Right now, we're casual. Moves like this can make us a shirt-and-tie type of fourm.
I don't think moving avatars in themselves detract from the quality of this website, it's which ones we choose that do that. I would hate to lose part of what gives this forum a sense of community.

Which brings me to another point.
I view off-topic discussions as a necessary part of this community. Seperating them can and will detract from that community feeling on the OLF.
I believe this forum started out intentionally to achieve that strong sense of community in it, and it succeeded. But taking the off-topic things out and relegating them to a seperate section, which doesn't always show up on the main page nor the Active Topics page, will detract from that sense of community in the long run. There is such a thing as taking yourself too seriously.
When I use the Active Topics button, (which is the only way I view this forum) I usually select a relatively short time-frame to go back and view things. So if their are no Off-Topic posts in the last 8 or 12 hours, I wouldn't see them at all. Entirely off my radar. It's easy to miss things you can't see readily.
Now, if you had a way to always show the subdivisions of the OLF on the Active Topics page regardless of activity, as is done on other forums, then we could see the latest activity in each section at a glance.
Just a thought.

[/QUOTE]


I really strongly agree with Don, here. O.T. things mixed in with lutherie, to me, is fun. Those non-serious moments are what allows us to get to know each other on a much deeper level than just talking shop. To me, putting it in the back room will remove a lot of what has made this forum so wonderful. Please reconsider, Lance.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Yup, me too. As long as the post's subject header starts with "OT", hey, it's not a problem. If a person doesn't want to read OT stuff, then just skip the OT posts.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Regarding Dons comments --

You all know I have resisted adding additional forums from the very beginning.
The forums that (have) been added have been (topic or project specific), such as the Reso forum and the CNC forum.

What has inevitably happed is that with our growth, now almost 800 members, the "off topic" stuff which once was fine and added to the charm of the OLF is getting a bit overwhelming. Creating a LOT of reading to find the "guitar" stuff. We must also remember that there are MANY more readers than there are posters. With over 4 million page views per month, that is quite obvious.

We don't necessarily want to discourage the normal banter that goes on with-in a post, or making a post such as the one I just made showing the fella playing one of my guitars on a porch, but rather, if it is COMPLETELY off topic, and has no relevance to guitars, it would be better placed in the OT section. And again, this is purely a symptom of our growth.

I do like the idea of making all the forums visable in the active topics view if a post has been made to them. We will look in to that.

As for the avators, I stand by my comments.

In a way, we are all growing together, us as builders and friends and the OLF as our community. I think we need to all be flexable and expect that things will not always be the same.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I'm Flexible! Really! So I'm a bit anal retentive! Big deal!

I hope you know my comments weren't to disrespect you or the forum, but just to put a human face on another viewpoint.

I for one am very fond of the OLF, and would not want to see it become a sterile place that gets lost in a narrow focus of concentrating solely on "guitar" stuff. That takes the humanity of it.

Poor Jimmy, I know he's going to take the blame for this....



Bring back the Cowbell!

(oh alright, I'll stop.)

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

The MIMF has always had the "Jam session" for off topic posts, and it's always worked very well. Threads will still go off topic often, with jokes and what all interjected among the serious posts, but if yuo want to start something off topic, the jam is the place to put it.

I think it's great that Lance wants to add that here. It takes 4 mouse clicks to go past just the one off topic post right now about that vote thing. It gets a bit long in the tooth after a week...

Add me, also, as another one who finds animated anything on a page as distracting, enough so that i cannot read what's there. I've had to resort to placing a hand over the animated thing to read the posts if I thought I needed to read it. Imoticons aren't an issue, as they're movement is small, but some of the avatars weren't so small, though few here really distracted me, and none ever offended me(but I'm hard to offend via images). Some forums are really bad for this kind of animated stuff, and I think it's from trying to "one-up" each other. Kudos for snuffing it here!

I'd be a fan of making it even a bit more organized. I think it might be a bit of a false assumption that having separate forum sections will discourage discussion and community and make everything sterile and cold.

On the contrary, I think making it a bit more organized makes it easier to find the information you want to read about or discuss. That encourages discussion which fosters community. The more obscure threads don't get buried as easily, and it's easier to go find older threads that might not be currently "active." It works great as long as you don't micro-categorize everything into subforums of subforums of subforums.

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

I agree with everything Mario said in the post above. Thanks and kudos to Lance for making the changes!

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

I, for one, am glad to see the OT stuff moved to a separate space. Just my two cents.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

[QUOTE=Larry Davis purveyor of fine tone wood]If you install the Google search tool bar it comes with a web form spell check... greatest thing since crispy pan fried rainbow trout on a flaming campfire at 6AM.[/QUOTE]

     Wow! Google offers breakfast like that! I think I'll buy stock!

     I for one hate to see the ani-avatars go, but if people are having problems reading, then I can understand!

    I do propose that all emoticons be changed to Emoti-Serges!! If that's OK with Serge!Billy T38874.547037037

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

No Billy Noooooooo! I prefer my LOL buttons and     and



and

I too am happy to see the OT stuff moved. I think it detracted from the forum. Just my opinion.

I like having everthing all in one place, I can see the point about the long OT's maybe getting cluttered, but to be honest I rarely read the other forums.

I am a bit weird but I like the cascading topics too ,sure I have to scroll more, but I like being able to see at a Glance new posts etc.

I think dividing into sections on this and that would definately make it harder, I have seen this format on other forums and whilst I think it makes finding articles on a particular subject easier, it would definately limit discusion, and divide the forum, some things you don't even realise you are interested in until you read a post.

Divided is good if you want a reference source, but if you want an active debate which everyone all together then I think the current format works best.

I dont feel strongly about it one way or the other, but IMHO ppl are pretty easily distracted and offended at the OLF sometimes.{and Im from Canada where ppl are usually PC and polite to a sickening degree}
I dont think anyone puts anything up with the intention to offend someone else, but it sure gets read that way sometimes.
As to whether it{animated avatars/emoticons} cheapens the site or makes it boorish, that might be so, but I dont use an avatar, and sparingly use the emoticons.
But for ppl who get offended easily, perhaps we shouldnt be so quick to remove the emotcons, as they portray the intention of previous statements somewhat, and let ppl know if it was in jest.
With the amount of current offendings/misunderstandings, imagine the amount of misunderstandings that might occur without them.
It wont break my heart to see the animated avatars go, but I didnt see them as a huge nuisance either.
Ultimately its the decision of the Admins and Mods here, and will be respected universally no doubt.
Cheers
Charliewoodcharliewood38874.6337615741

and I really do mean everyone,
I like the way the topics scroll and they are all basically in one place. Every time things get seperated out it makes a forum more cold in my opinion. Look at the jimmy-cat thread... I never would have looked for that at all in an off topic area, but since it was labelled OT, and I saw it, I checked it out. Glad I did too, it's funny.
I also think that the small emoticons are very useful, especially in sensitive situatons where you really want to emphasize a mood clearly.
I think seperating threads into too many seperate categories divides the group.
Lance I really think you should try to do obviously what you feel is best, but the forum aint that broke.. most fixes happen between ourselves because we care about the fact we are a tight group. This is the one forum where it seems to bring people together more than potentially divide. That's the reason I came over here in the first place, years ago now.. The forum I did hang out at was getting stuffy, detatched, and boring.
In the years I have been here I can name maybe three times when this place has gotten to people enough to divide one or two of us enough to want to leave. In one case the person came back, thankfully, and the other two- well, that makes two unresolved issues in maybe 4-5 years?

Christmas is Christmas because it's what it is. So is the OLF. Dag nabbit.....

Fire at will..

C.Lavinclavin38874.6561458333

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www.handcraftinlay.com

I prefer everything in one basket too, though it does get a bit cumbersome with out-of-control threads like the voting one, which I participated in by the way. I just hit the space bar to scroll down or shift-space to scroll up, so I don't have to keep clicking the mouse.

Other forums I've seen grew and when the volume got high enough for the admins to divide them into smaller bits, the energy died. I don't know the answer, but if we keep most of the threads on the main page and have the OT stuff on a smaller side page, I think the possibility of negative effects will be reduced and will probably reduce the number of OT posts just because that area will not be front and center. Like Mario said, on the MIMF it seems to work, though over there they're are a bit more divided up than I like. But then it must have come about out of necessity.

I expect the combined energy of all the potential subtopics that fall under luthery being in one spot will keep everything moving here at the OLF, sort of like having a party in the big room as opposed to split up in smaller rooms.

I guess it's all about compromise, like everything else.

It was fun while it lasted, but now I'm all for static avatars. They were getting distracting for me too. We're lucky to have avatars at all.

This forum has got to be much bigger and busier than Brock or Lance ever thought it would be. Keep up the great work and thanks!



I do like these little guys!

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

[QUOTE=Serge Poirier] thanks for putting a OT section, i think it was needed here.

Serge[/QUOTE]

I hate quoting myself but i feel that in all honesty i should clarify my comment here. I said this with all the respect that is due to our chiefs and mods but i have to say that i changed my mind and kindly disagree with the OT being separated from the main discussion forum, i'm with Don, Russell, Craig and Pat and others who wish to keep those family discussion going because that's what we are, OLF is my other family, i would even agree to write the whole 2 words "OFF TOPIC" so it clearly shows to visitors what to expect from that kind of thread and further more, i really think that the OFF TOPIC threads combined to those related to lutherie are one reason of the OLF success because new people see first hand how tight knitted we are and how friendly we are, might be a bit more work of supervision but as Craig mentionned, there are a few of us who are already volunteering to remind people of our rules and self policing.

Lance, Brock, i do and always will respect your wisdom and decisions but i 'm using my right of speech this time to say please reconsider as a favor, i too fear that our place will get cold...
The removal of animated avatars was a good decision and there is anything else we could do to keep our OT, please let us know!Serge Poirier38874.6760300926

[QUOTE=burbank]
I expect the combined energy of all the potential subtopics that fall under luthery being in one spot will keep everything moving here at the OLF, sort of like having a party in the big room as opposed to split up in smaller rooms.[/QUOTE]

Ha ha, I was actually going to use this exact some analogy to prove the opposite point... I'd much rather be at a party at someone's home where you can find little nooks and corners and actually carry on a conversation with someone, versus shouting over all the noise.

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

I apologize to no one. There is only one thing I have to say:


I’ve got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

I agree with you, Russell, guitar maker extraordinaire, completely. I always use the cascading topics because I like to see posts that have come along since my last one, and can see who has made each post.
Don't move the O.T.'s either, please.


Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......